We can live like Jack and Sally if we want... and we'll have Halloween on Christmas...

Okay maybe there's some psychoanalytical reason that someone smarter than me can explain the topic of this post away with, but my recent break-up has left me reevaluating what I'm looking for in a relationship. So a couple of months ago, I was browsing the internet image board 4chan.org (I swear to Goth this is not a regular thing, my ex was a /b/tard). I learned quickly that there is no shortage of lonely people lurking on the internet. The original message read:

Femanon here, maybe some guys could give me insight on this. Are there actually guys out there who want a real relationship and a girl who's good-looking but someone they can also carry on a conversation with, someone who's funny, etc.? I'm scared to get involved in relationships because I feel like those guys do not exist or they put up a front for sex, but I've had heart-to-heart conversations with guys who claim that all they want is a chick who's down-to-earth and will love them and be there for them, etc. etc. I really don't fucking know.

And in between the expected "TITS OR GTFO" responses, I found one that I consider to be the best, wisest, but most overlooked philosophy in and about relationships.

I don't want a relationship, I want to meet girls and have fun. I'll CONSIDER a relationship with a girl who's interesting, funny, good-looking, etc. I think if you're looking for "a relationship," then you're actually looking to fill a little hole in your life, and the first peg that fits will do. That's greedy, self-centered, and dumb, and off-putting to people who sense the intention. The sad thing is, most people don't even realize they're doing that. When you just want to meet people whose company you enjoy, you can meet someone who's worth a relationship. Look for people first, relationship second. That way you're interacting with another human, and not just wanting anybody who can make you not lonely.

Now I'm curious about how this applies to the alternative scene at large. If you're looking to meet someone whose company you enjoy--and someone that you would consider having a relationship with--does it matter if that person falls into the same subculture as you? Does it make it easier?

There are certain lifestyle aspects, I think, that might be more easily understood by someone who has similar inclinations. At face value, there is the appearance factor. Tattoos, piercings, clothing styles outside of the mainstream-- these are things that would be a lot easier to accept between partners if one didn't have to explain (read: give excuses for) to the other. While I understand that one doesn't have to be "Goth" or "alternative" to necessarily listen to Industrial or watch horror movies, many people in the subculture like those things and thus are less likely to judge them. And for all of the creative types, work that might be called morbid or dark is presumably less likely to be criticized by a partner who isn't shocked or disgusted by something deemed too dark at face value.

In the Goth community alone, there are several dating websites which seem to be legit places for Goths to meet each other. The website www.gothicmatch.com was featured on Tyra Banks' daytime television show (okay, so it doesn't automatically make it credible, but at least it's gotten some attention) and www.gothscene.com reminds me of a match.com, but for Goths. I don't have a profile on either of them, so admittedly I haven't tried them, but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has.

So now I'm curious. For all of my readers, I ask you, if you consider your tastes and/or lifestyle in any way to be "alternative," does your current partner fall into that same category? Do you share similar tastes? If your partner doesn't share the same lifestyle as you, then how does your relationship work? What brings you together? And if you're not with someone right now, how does living an alternative lifestyle affect what you look for in a partner? This isn't limited to exclusively Goths, by the way. Anyone indie, punk, artsy, etc. is welcome to chime in.

Please leave your comments on the blog using the link right underneath this post. Thanks so much, and I look forward to you all giving me something to think about that I can use in a future post.


Meek said...

Miko LeStrange here,
I've used gothscene.com and gothicpersonals.com even longer. It's not like it used to be. Myspace has made the dating scene much easier, and harder at the same time.
See, before myspace, before even internet in general, ppl had to go out to clubs, diners, shows, to meet others into "alternative lifestyles". Now, it's so much easier, you can do a search for ppl on myspace in your area that has similar interests, like if you want to find a mate that likes VNV Nation and likes to crochet. :)
It's harder, since, well, in my personal experience, you get either trickery (like angled photos or copied profiles) or way too much information.
oof, there's so much i could write about this subject that I'm scatterbrained and free thought writing here.
singles sites like gothicpersonals, they used to work, i still have my ad up on gothic personals, but just for making new friends and also to promote the clubs and shows. a few years ago, it seemed the hot spot to go to meet ppl, now everyone is so scattered all over the place, vampirefreaks.com.
well, it can be, I met exes from the net that the relationships lasted for well over a year.

changing gears.
I'm currently in a relationship after being actively single for over 3 years.
We met at the club that I spin at
and, well, i went against my word.
when i first started spinning there, i swore that, in order to avoid psycho drama, that I'd never date anyone from the club or scene.
my past experience with other cities, oof. It got to the point that i'd go into a goth club in dc on any random night and see at least 5 exes, and some of em I was cool with, some of em not, some of em with their current lover and so on and so forth.
when i moved down here to hampton, where the scene is much smaller, i noticed the dating pool to be much much smaller and that it seemed like everyone had dated each other already and someone had something to say about any given person.

on an aside
a friend told me once
"Dating in the goth scene, it's not a matter of finding someone without emotional baggage, it's finding someone with matching luggage." lol

but yeah, i lucked out, my lover and i are both emotionally co-dependant (which runs rampant in this scene) so it works out.
we're older too, so, we want to settle down, which is what I've been wanting for years now.
Being older in the scene, well, most younger say they want a relationship, but yeah, they jump into it, i know i did, i'd just jump from one relationship to the next, shitty or not, just so i wouldnt be alone, and you'll see that alot.
oof, still writing free flow thought here, so excuse me.
It can be so friggin hard to find someone. It's weird levels, you'll see alot of "chain phenomenon" which is, girl at club likes a dude, who likes a different girl, who likes a different guy. but, the chain is leveled, as in, I'll use a superficial example:
Gothapatumus girl likes lanky goth guy, but lanky goth guy likes skanky goth girl, but skanky goth girl likes pretentious goth manwhore.
so, after some time of this chain of unrequited love, someone breaks it and decides to settle, instead of feeling rejected and lonely, so skanky goth girl gets with lanky goth guy, he falls in love, she breaks his dark little heart when she thinks she's got another chance with manwhore, who just happens to be hard up one night.
heartbroken, our lil lanky goth guy goes for poor chubby but bubbly gothapotamus girl, uses her for sex, treats her like shit to make himself feel better, only to break her heart when skanky goth girl feels lonely and "wants someone to talk to". whereupon, the emotional masochist that lanky dude is, drops gothpoptartamus, stands up their date to watch a tim burton movie at her place, just so he can here skankalicious bitch and whine about how ugly she is and no one loves her and how she'll always be alone, all cuz Ubergotherthanthou manwhore spotted the fresh young 18 year old lolita goth that's only been to the club once before which activates his inner imperialist.

ummm, yeah, or so i heard.

now i plug my website.

Anonymous said...

Honestly, I don't think what you look like has any affect on who you are dating, in the long run. At first, it's all about looks and attraction but when all that fades or gets familiar, it's about the relationship between the two people.

I met Gabe via myspace. He befriended me as Hindu Pez. I met him in person a year or so later at a show he was playing with a friends band. I had just gotten out of a super bad relationship. I wasn't looking for a new boyfriend, I was looking for a friend. He and I hit it off, he made me laugh and we shared a common goal in helping the scene. We talked more and more. We decided to start MC7C. We worked together a lot. I went to his shows because he was playing alongside my friend's bands again. He was going through a nasty divorce. I was sick. It was a BIG FREAKING mess at the time and somehow we were there for each other.
I remember looking at him one day and realizing that I liked him, knowing that I loved him before we even met. He made my heart jump. He liked me for me. I didn't have to pile on the make up to be pretty to him. We were good friends.

He's gothic.
I'm more of a pin-up / punk rocker chick. We don't look that same, we don't like a lot of the same music, we don't dress the same, we don't like the same foods, nor do we do the same hobbies. I really think we work because we're different. I've dated men that were more similar and it didn't work. I got bored. I wasn't intrigued. I need to remain interested. I need them to show me new things. Gabe does that.

I've never dated a musician before either. I've been around the local music scene since I was 14 years old but could not stomach dating a musician. Ego and blowjobs....that isn't something that I wanted to deal with! ha. But it works with us. We created a remix together. We've created songs together.

This is the way I look at it.
It doesn't matter what you look like. When we're old and old we're all going to look like prunes with white hair. Does it really matter how tight your ass was at 23? Does it matter that our hair matched, our outfits matched, and our favorite band was something so spooky it made us cry? No. It's the care and memories we share. The new experiences we have because one of us is willing to try something new.

Gabe and I have been together almost 2 years now. Been engaged for 9 months. I do admit that I love his eyes when he wears eyeliner, admires his assets when he wears tight pants, giggle when he plays air guitar to some gothic band, and smile when he looks into my eyes at my worst looking day and tells me I'm the most beautiful girl in the world.

That is love.
That's all it should be


Leah said...

It's a little scary to date someone within the scene. No matter how much you like a person, there's always that fear of a bad breakup. A bad breakup can lead to people making negative judgments when its really none of their business. But that's the thing about dating someone you meet at the club. It's somehow everyone's business, and if you do something seen as wrong, may be a horrible mistake you feel miserable about, but instantly, you're the villain.
It's just a lot of pressure to make it work.

Anonymous said...

I have to say that I really dont like the internet for dating. that said I want to talk about the idea of alternative lifestyle and its effect on how to date. Being an artist I find it harder to meet people because a lot of my life is spent working in the studio and not out and about but I have to say that the idea of getting out is very important to meeting people. also living an alternative lifestyle makes it easier to meet people because I am used to different people and bothered by very little, but its the issue of others being so open.

Adrian said...

I mean, these sites can help to find somebody with the same interests. Gothic is a very special area. It isn't accepted everywhere in the society! This opinion should be able to confirm everybody. Not everybody makes itself popular if he says: I love the music of MM. This is only one example. It's grotesque, right? I've used once a contact site, but without positive experiences. I didn't know about the existence of these Gothic sites. But it sounds interesting. Gothic is really a special area with unusual mood. The luck find is possible, but only if BOTH sides begin with honesty. But this is also the big problem. At the Internet honesty is no fact. Unfortunately. But maybe we live in The golden age of grotesque...

Anonymous said...

All people are crazy. That's why I just don't bother anymore.

Anonymous said...

1) Thank you for the This Shit Will Fuck You Up plug! I officially love you.
2) Thank you for the anti-bumb-n-grind statement! That's what The Wave's Saturday night is for. I'm straight, but.... it's a long story.
3) I love the post about the "Inter-scene" Dating. (Feel free to use that turm) See, I'm in a catch 22 with that. Mainstream girls would wonder why I'm not availiable Tuesday nights, find out, and be like "Ewww." And I guess the military aspect brings about the whole image of mass conformity, mindless compiance to orders, and a lack of individuality. But it's quite to the contrary. Follow this; I am who I am because of and in spite of the Marine Corps. Me, I've dated the gambit. Good Christian girls, preppy college students, vampire goths, Wiccans (those two are not the same). Some good, some bad, and only one was the Goth/Marine contradiction never a problem. But, I'm not striken by it. I stay true to myself, and see what comes.

khloe said...

gothic manwhore. haha...
I do believe that wonderful and meaningful relationships can cross over cultural, sub cultural borders! but i think it depends on the people involved.
this is my experience if you are curious..

ive been in a couple long term relationships with guys who were not into the alternative scene at all. since my first boyfriend was really into the stuff i was, i always felt just a tiny bit lonely with these men. they thought i was cute, and one of them loved horror movies and pinups which is cool but as soon as we started to settle down they tried to change me. one of them insisted i become a catholic and was really mad, even when i went to church with him because of the way i dressed. the other one tried to take my big black boots away and throw them on the grill outside. he said ' its time you stop dressing like a teenager, you look ridiculous,give me the boots!' and 'i just cant understand why you listen to all that terrible depressing music, no wonder your so troubled!' 'whats that youre drawing, a satanic lesbian? eww" he was really mean about it and when i left him i felt so relieved! its strange that people are like that, i never judged that guy or made fun of him for his preppy clothes. even that purple turtleneck, *shudder*, i just let it go...
ANyway my current boyfriend is also alternative and i am much happier. we have fun getting ready to go out, rocking out in the car, etc. im happier because i can be myself. he loves my art too.
ps i cant say anything about internet dating. never tried it. kinda scard of it!!!!
good luck every1!